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25 August, 2021

American Professionals Split On Freedom Over Getting Vaccinated For Covid-19, Variants on LinkedIn


A LinkedIn News feed Tuesday on the #FutureOfWork turned into a debate whether Americans should give up their individual freedom and get vaccinated, mask up. 

This news article reports that "The face of who is dying is also changing quickly. Deaths are increasingly centered among white non-Hispanic people," confirming their analysis of data from the National Center for Health Statistics.

This news article claims that white non-Hispanics who accounted for about 61.1% of all deaths during the pandemic, made up 68.8% of the deaths reported so far in July and August.

It also referred to a preliminary tally from the Center for Disease Control and Prevention showing that deaths among young people are jumping.

This tally showed deaths among those in their 30s and those between 18 to 29 have roughly tripled in July and August.

However, the debate on LinkedIn started when Nagwa Aziz, a Program Analyst at DoDEA (Department of Defense Education Activity) commented, "Not going back [to office] as long as they are forcing vaccines."

Kevin Lougheed, President with Lowfield Management Inc. responded to her comment saying, "Nagwa Aziz In most of Canada, if you want to go anywhere public, you must have govt proof of a double vaccination. We have a small % of people over 12 years of age...and they represent the majority of people catching Covid and going into ICUs. You will not be able to get into any restaurant, bar or anything...small allowances for people with medical issues but it will still have a need for some medical records. It has been 18 months and the majority of us want this to end." 

Jessy Rose, an Attorney then joined in saying, "Kevin Lougheed I'm sorry you don't live in a free country." 

Jamie Spinney, an Assistant Professor at Southern Utah University countered saying, "Jessy Rose Google "freedom index" by country. Then Google "freedom vs. liberty". You are welcome for the lesson."

The Human Freedom Index according to CATO Institute "presents the state of human freedom in the world based on a broad measure that encompasses personal, civil, and economic freedom. Human freedom is a social concept that recognizes the dignity of individuals and is defined here as negative liberty or the absence of coercive constraint."

Explaining Freedom vs Liberty,  Wikipedia says, "In philosophy, liberty involves free will as contrasted with determinism. ... Thus liberty entails the responsible use of freedom under the rule of law without depriving anyone else of their freedom. Freedom is more broad in that it represents a total lack of restraint or the unrestrained ability to fulfill one's desires."

Elizabeth R. Bain, Of Counsel at Williams Kastner entered the debate and shared her experience and thought. 

"I traveled to a conference out-of-state. It was anxiety-inducing. I am fully vaccinated, and there is a federal law requiring passengers to wear a mask (mouth and nose) at the airport and on the plane, this did not make me feel better. With the Delta variant raging, plenty of people cannot seem to locate their noses--even after assistance from a flight attendant. So many that I propose funding the federal infrastructure bill by issuing $50 mask violation tickets at airports and on planes. (Send those "federal police" the ex-president sent to Portland to incite violence.) Easier and more effective than a bake sale. Further, I'd put violators on a temporary no-fly list. Well-publicized serious penalties can stop bad behavior. Aside from the airports and planes, the conference city did not seem to know there was a pandemic going on--despite being deeply in the red (high transmission rate per Global Epidemics). While my hotel had a sneeze guard between the guests and front-desk staff, no one thought anything of hopping into the very small elevator with me, even with their unmasked children who were clearly too young to be vaccinated. I was the only one who wore a mask in the hallways/lobby area." 

Her reference to the ex-president then grabbed the attention of a few. 

Dorothy Biddle, VHR at Strategic Communications replied saying, "Ms Bain… The ex-President did not send police to Portland to incite violence! That comment was unnecessary…."

Bruce Boyles, Medicare Specialist at Advise Insurance, said: "If the ex president would have sent police to Portland you would not have witnessed the violence and destruction done by the protesters. In addition, if you are so concerned about covid, you should come to Texas as the open border crisis is flooding our state with illegal entry and close to half are covid positive. They are then let free to roam our country and infect more American citizens."

There were a couple of comments that wanted the debate to probably end or stay on the #FutureofWork topic.

Lisa Vacula, Operations Associate at Gopuff, commented, "A mask violation fine crosses the civil rights political line, as such would be a much better topic on another platform/forum."

Stan Piskorski, whose profile says "I help sales people identify customers' problems & shorten sales cycles. I help sales managers coach more effectively", commented, "Bruce Boyles Stay on topic. This is not facebook." 

David Koran, Successful Entrepreneur - Practices the lost art of Common Sense had this to say to Ms Bain, "Elizabeth, It’s like wearing a seatbelt at this point , it supposedly saves lives but not guaranteed. So , if I wear my seatbelt ( vaccinated ) and another person does not wear theirs ( not vaccinated) it is their risk and why should I care . Elizabeth, next thing you will want is a health card from your waiter at a restaurant. Do you have aids , hepatitis, herpes , how about those cold sores on your lip and on and on . Stop the nonsense and wearing a mask in the car when driving by yourself . And your comment about the ex president is revealing . Very revealing. TDS."

Barry Boyes, Chief Technology Officer at Advanced Materials Technology aggreed saying, "Same. Travel is indeed anxiety producing. My own recent experience was extremely unpleasant, and featured the inevitable "no mask" guy, who took the opportunity to "educate" me about the "MSM and bootlickers", rather than just put his damn mask on. My flight arrangements are now based on minimizing connections, avoiding ATL, DFW, or any southern airport, and getting as many empty seats in my vicinity as possible. Costs more, allows me less anxiety. It is not my job, or desire, to "police" or educate other passengers about respiratory pathogens."

Stephen Cook, General Counsel at Columbia Land Trust then responded to Koran. "Hi David. The seatbelt analogy breaks down with COVID. If I wear my mask, but someone else doesn't wear theirs, I can still be exposed to COVID if they're infected, and I can get sick. We wear our masks as much for the protection of others as for our own protection. When others don't wear masks properly, you, I and the ones we loved are put at unreasonble risk of infection. Steve."

Mark Frazer AFIS, Insurance Agent at Farmers Insurance Group of Companies, with 30 plus years of Commercial Business Insurance Experience, 20 plus years experience as Financial Advisor commented, "Are you all blind to what is going on? Wake up not Woke up!

We and our ancestors have fought and died for the Freedom we have in this country, do not give them up without a fight. Don't let them keep you living in fear to get you to volunteer to give up your Freedoms and rights. Don't just listen to the Mainstream Media? They are leading you into a life of fear, oppression, and slavery. Look at Venenzuela, China, Russia, Cuba, North Korea is that how you would like to live. IF so, get your shot and buy a ticket and move to one of these places and be happy. Leave this country alone. !."

While this debate on LinkedIn was on, CNN published an update headlined "US Covid cases among children have surged to one of its highest rates of the pandemic. Experts warn it may get worse"

This update quoted a report from
 the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Children's Hospital Association that revealed: "From about 38,000 cases a week near the end of July, the week ending August 19 saw more than 180,000 cases in children."

CNN added that "The rise has come as 48.4% of the population is yet to be fully vaccinated, according to data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and as the average of daily new reported cases rises to more than 151,000."

Health Feedback did a fact-check saying "Janci Chunn Lindsay’s claims that COVID-19 vaccines are unsafe are inaccurate and unsupported by scientific evidence."

Another fact-check from Snopes said: "White House Staff Are Not Required To Get Vaccinated for COVID" adding "However, a vaccine mandate for federal employees states that they have to be regularly tested for the virus if they choose not to be vaccinated."

The LinkedIn discussion started well staying on the topic of #FutureOfWork when Michael Skok, Founding Partner at Underscore VC, Venture Partner at Harvard Business School commented, "There are so many reasons we may want to get back to in person work. Yet let's take this time to ask the *other* questions: 

What can we do on zoom that we could not do in person? How can we travel to our "customers' world" virtually? And how do your customers want to be served in this new "hybrid" world? 

Difficult as it might be during this time, we're continually amazed, energized and inspired by what we're learning. Here's just one example. 

"We love that you can bring a group of people to us from across the world who represent the expertise to solve our problems. And they can collectively brainstorm with us and share their solutions in real time on screen. Meanwhile we can collect our ongoing questions in chat without fear of being the quietest or loudest voice in the room."

Thank you Chiffionda Ellsworth for sharing your approach!"

The discussion from professionals seemed to have moved back to the topic. If you wish to follow the latest on this thread, see here.


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